While we were in Spain, legendary David Rivers spoke to Basketball Sphere in an extensive interview.
You know that type of person who does not say much, but everything they say carries a deeper meaning and purpose – that is exactly what David Rivers is like.
During his playing career, he was inducted into the Notre Dame Hall of Fame, selected 24th overall in the NBA Draft by the Los Angeles Lakers, and had the opportunity to share the court with Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, while being coached by Pat Riley…
He later played for the Los Angeles Clippers and in the CBA, where he put up incredible numbers, before deciding to make the move to Europe.
For him, his true basketball journey in a special way began with his arrival in France. Two years later, he signed with Olympiacos, where his coach was Dušan “Duda” Ivkovic.
He won the EuroLeague, was named Final Four MVP in 1997, became the first American to be named European Player of the Year, won everything there was to win with Tofas under head coach Jasmin Repesa, and also had plenty of experience playing against teams coached by Zeljko Obradovic, whom he knew very little about when he first arrived in Europe.
He also shared the now-famous story of the day when Olympiacos changed their mind about offering him a new contract – one he had already agreed to – while we also discussed Dejan Bodiroga, whom Rivers holds in extremely high regard and who, at that time, could have formed the most dangerous duo in European basketball with him. However, it never happened.
Since we conducted the interview in video format, this textual part will be presented as a dialogue, exactly as David Rivers spoke, word for word.
Okay, all right. So, coach, really, we really appreciate your time and that you accepted this interview. I want to start from this place, from the present, because can you tell us something more about the importance of the camps like this in Alicante? You are here second year in a row. So what can you tell us about the prospects and plans that systems like Alicante have?
“Alicante, here at the International Basketball Hub, we’re all about giving the players high-quality information. For me, that also involves going beyond basketball. Everything I do, I try to correlate it to real-life experiences. Because the game puts us in environments where we meet different people, we’re able to travel and have international experiences. So Alicante has been fantastic.
From the facilities to the organizers, the kids, they show up every year, this being the second year, ready to work, ready to learn. And it’s not easy. We put them through a lot of training, and they get tired, they get exhausted. But that’s what we want, that’s the objective. You know, get them tired, break them down, and then ask them to think and execute.
So we’ve been doing a great job with it, and it’s exciting, and I always love coming back, being in this great country, in this great city. But that’s our goal as far as what we’re trying to give to the young players.”
You was talking in one of sessions about passion, about joy of basketball. Is that the thing that keeps you near basketball even after your career? You be the coach at one time and now you have a business, something including the sports and the business side. So what you can tell us about all of that package that you are now included in?
“Well, you know, basketball is going to always be a part of my life. For me, I always considered it a gift from God, my ability, my talent. I come from a very religious background, family-wise, with my mother and my father. And so basketball has done so much for me in terms of opportunity to have a better life, to help my family have a better life.
And so no matter what I do, no matter where I am, there will always be an element of basketball where I’m trying to mentor and give back and share my knowledge with the young players. There’s a lot of information out there today and players like to talk about history and the different eras. Well, I represent history now, and so even though we have this new technology world that we live in, the fundamentals and basics of basketball and being successful still remain the same. And so I try to drill down on that in terms of giving my experiences to the next generation. This is what you need to do to put yourself in a position to have an opportunity for success.
No matter how hard you train, no matter how great you are, it’s not a guarantee that you’re going to put yourself in a successful situation to perform. So I try to give them reality about the entire experience, connecting every dot from individual preparation before they make a team to what they need to do when they are fortunate to be on a team and in business. Before me, corporations, major corporations were always bringing in these celebrity athletes to talk to their leadership, you know, C-level corporate suite executives. Why? Well, because the same characteristics you need to run a successful company, we practice it and live it every day in basketball.
Leadership, dedication, discipline, focus, sacrifice, team. You know, not the individual accolades, but the accolades that come with lifting up an entire company, an entire division, all that is applicable. So I apply the same training and disciplines, all those characteristics that lead to success, I apply that to my business initiatives as well. And it doesn’t matter what industry, it always applies because we’re dealing with, you know, human interaction. So, you know, I get to live the best of both worlds.”
I wanted to ask you about it, how much basketball career help you in your now business and stuff like that. Because it’s important to be a good teammate. It’s important to know how to work in environment where are not only you, there are only full team. Okay. It can be managers, it can be teammates, it can be executives as you said.
But it’s, it’s really, really important. So after that present part, I want to ask you something about your past because we are from Serbia and a lot of guys really, really have that joy and passion for basketball. So I want to ask you from your beginning of your basketball career, what have you thinking about when the NBA, how to say, read your name. The NBA draft. Did you ever dream about that going to the NBA? We was now talking about that every player wants to be the best version of himself. But best version of everybody.
So now when you going back, how you feel about that, being chosen in the NBA draft. And that was the kind of the first, first step to the professional basketball. I know that you are Hall of Fame for Notre Dame. You still holding a lot of records, some records. And they inducted you in a Hall of Fame of the school. So how that was important at that point of your career?
“It was very important because it was my dream. When I was out in the playground shooting by myself, practicing by myself, these are the things that I was envisioning in my mind, along with making the winning shot at the buzzer. I was dreaming of winning championships and being the best player and all of these things. So when it came to, you know, from St. Anthony’s, well, even before St. Anthony’s, you know, my public school, P.S. 14, playing for Coach Charlie Brown and going on to Bob Hurley Sr. at St. Anthony’s, you know, everything along the journey was designed.
It’s what I envisioned. It’s what I dreamed. My local high school was maybe, you know, a mile and a half from my home, but I chose to go to the school that was four, five miles away. And it was a private school, and my parents couldn’t afford it. But this is what I was thinking in my mind.
I needed to go where the next step would facilitate if I was to be successful with me going on to higher levels. And I was blessed. That’s what happened with my career. Notre Dame, Digger Phelps, going to the NCAA tournament every four years with Coach Phelps. And then draft time, NBA draft time.
The thing that I was thinking about from the moment I picked up the ball, you know, Julius Erving being my idol. And now it’s the draft. I get drafted, first round, 24th pick. I’m not happy about the 24th pick. I’m living my dream, right?
I’m in Madison Square Garden, New York, draft lights, bright lights, everyone’s there. So I go from, you know, being excited and being happy to being pissed off.
Because I’m 24. And so I’m not liking that. But at the end of the day, I knew it was a blessing. My parents were happy, my family was happy, and the rest was about, okay, you’re here now. Now it’s time to go to work.
So you stay and you move up. So that’s always the focus. That was my dream. That was how I was feeling at the time. And, yeah, I was very blessed.”
Do you think that the NBA, how to say, did you throw that opportunity down and choose to go to Europe, or did they decide to not give you any more chances?
“No, it was me. It was my decision. Listen, when I got to the Lakers, you know, Magic Johnson was in front of me. Michael Cooper was in front of me. Byron Scott was in front of me.
James Worthy, Michael Thompson, Jeff Lamp, Mark McNamara, James Worthy, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Tony Campbell, those were my guys. And Pat Riley was our coach. And so for me, I’m gonna play, right? I’m gonna play. I know all the work that I put in, and it wasn’t about ego.
It was about knowing the work that I put in to be there. So we’re in practice every day, and I’m having great practices. I’m, like, truly doing what I do, and great practices to the point where I believe Pat Riley was thinking I was going to quit and give up because he didn’t like rookies.”
It was something like a test for you, right?
“For me, at the end of the day, it was part of my journey. It was all meant to be. Pat Riley would come to me and say, David, I don’t like rookies. You’re not going to play. I don’t like rookies.
And I’m like, okay, I respect you for saying that to me, but I’m gonna play. I’m gonna make you play me through what I do in practice. And nothing changed in my approach. Showed up every day, hundred percent, one hundred percent, every day grind. Being a headache to Magic, being a headache to all of them.
I’m playing like I’m gonna play in the game. And so finally, three quarters of the way into the season, Pat Riley comes up to me and practices in the middle of practice and said, David, you just need your own team. You really need your own team. That’s what he said to me. Because it didn’t matter that I wasn’t playing consistent minutes. I played, but I didn’t play the minutes that I wanted to or that I should have.
But the only thing he could do was make the compliment to me, saying, look, every single day, you show up, you’re showing out, you’re playing, you’re performing, and everybody sees it. He said, the only thing I could say to you is that you need your own team. You need to lead your own team. And that was the compliment he gave me, and I respected him for that. And to this day, I respect him because he knows what he wants and he goes about his business and he gets it done.
But that was a great experience. It was a learning experience. Think about it. I get drafted 24th, I go from the Lakers to the LA Clippers. The LA Clippers.
Out of the 24 draft players in my class, we had 11. We had 11 of those players on the LA Clippers. So we were young, out of control, wild, crazy. So I go from the Lakers to the Clippers. I got to see the best of the best.
And then I got to see what a growing process really is, really looks like. Yeah, so it was all educational and I was always a student of the game, so it didn’t matter to me, every opportunity was a teaching moment, was a learning moment, and I learned a lot.”
That story about Pat Riley, you are now talking that you are blessed and thankful for him, to be honest. Is that something in the professional sports missing? Because he’s one. Pat Riley is one. And there are more guys, but in small percentage that are honest. Okay, let’s sit down, eye to eye, and I will tell you what I’m thinking about you, about your career, what’s good for you, what’s bad for you. Are you missing in professional sports 100%?
“100%. Because the power dynamic has shifted. The power dynamic used to be the coach is the coach, the coach is the authority. What the coach says goes. That power dynamic has shifted to the players.
The players now have the power. And right or wrong, but a coach will hesitate more today going to the guy that’s supposed to be the superstar and say, hey, look, I need you to practice a little harder. I need you to be a better leader. A coach that does that will risk the possibility of losing his job.
So that power dynamic has shifted. But back in the day, where coaches could be coaches and stand toe to toe with the player and eye to eye and speak his real mind, no, you got few coaches that have that ability to do that today.”
I know and I read about it in preparation for this talk that you played CBA before you signed in Europe. So if you want, you can tell me something about your CBA experience and what was the breaking point yourself, David Rivers, to tell yourself, okay, I’m going to Europe.
“Yeah. Okay, so I’m in the CBA. I’m playing for, you know, Flip Saunders, La Crosse Catbirds. And the coach before that was Henry Bibby, point guard for the 76ers. Years, years passed.
And so I’m winning, you know, I come from the Lakers, you know, conference champions, LA Clippers, think we make the playoffs for the first time in the team’s history or something like that. And I go to the CBA and they say, David, just play in the CBA. You’ll get called up and blah, blah. Okay, so I play in the CBA the first year, lead the league in assists, you know, steals, blah, blah, blah. And I don’t get called up.
And so I come back second year and I’m almost averaging a triple-double, you know, 25 points, 15 assists. I think seven or eight rebounds, maybe four or five steals a game. And so I’m having a great year. I’m MVP, all that stuff. And Boston Celtics was supposed to call me up, and Flip Saunders was saying, David, you finally getting your call?
Boston Celtics. And somehow one of the coaches, assistant coaches for the Celtics, was speaking very negatively about me. And I only learned this later. So the Celtics passed on me. And so I’m pissed.
I’m hot, I’m angry. And so Flip Saunders says, David, look, maybe you got to do something like crazy. Go out, get 30 assists and 25 points. And I’m like, I don’t say anything, but it’s in my head. He planted the seed.
And I go out. Next game, I get 30 assists and like, 23 or 24 points. And after the game, Flip Saunders, he can’t look at me. He can’t look me in the eye because I went and did what he asked me to do, and I didn’t get called up. So I’m like, okay.
Meanwhile, Kenny Barlow, who’s been over here in Europe, Michael Young, who’s been over here in Europe having great success, they’re telling me, David, come to Europe, come to Europe, come to Europe. And I had refused them. They asked me to come, like, seven or eight times in the two years in the CBA. And so finally we win the championship again. I’m MVP.
I set all kinds of records and blah, blah, blah. And finally I say, okay, I’m not going to wait on the NBA. I’m going to go where I can play and dominate and have the success that I need to have. But looking back on all that, it was part of my destiny. It was part of my journey, and I believe that.
And I came here to Europe at the end of the day. My first stop was in Belgium for a short period. And then I subsequently signed with Antibes in France and had success. Won a cup, the President’s Cup the first year, second in the championship title. Second year, I come back, I’m angry because we didn’t win it all.
The first year, second year, we win everything. And then Olympiacos calls. So the journey starts. I go from France to Greece to Italy to Turkey, every team winning a championship. So at the end of the day, here we are.
Europe has been fantastic. Learning about the cultures and the different languages. It’s just been so enriching beyond basketball, and I’ve enjoyed every step of it.”
Do you maybe remember the game against Partizan in those years, in your first, I think, first year in France, you played against Partizan in Belgrade. Do you maybe remember that experience?
And after that, you left for Olympiacos. Do you maybe remember those experiences against Zeljko? And did you know who he was at the moment?
“No. It’s a great question. You know, my mentality was I didn’t care. I literally did not care who you were at that time. For me, the only thing that I cared about was the scouting report and the game plan that the coaches set.
I wanted to understand that in its totality, because it was my job to make sure that we executed the game plan. So I knew that the guards and certain players had certain statures and they were good and they were great, but I didn’t care. I just was more focused on what I needed to do in terms of my performance to be in position to make my teammates better. Because if I was successful in making my teammates better, that would mean that we would win the game.
So that’s why I didn’t give any attention to the great point guards or the great forwards or centers that I was playing against. It was more about me. I had to perform. If I performed at my level of making my teammates better, then we had a 95% chance of winning.”
After that, the next stop is Pireus – Olympiacos. Rest in peace, Dusan Ivkovic, he was your coach. He is one of the greatest European coaches ever. And in Serbia he’s something like a saint, something like a guy who made that zero steps for everyone else.
How to say? And that his approach. And he was a guy who really yelled and everything, but he’s really the student of the game, like you said. And in 1997, you won the EuroLeague, you won in Barcelona, in Rome, you won the MVP award. You are the first American who won the award for the player of the year in Europe.
And now you also won the Greek Super Cup, Greek League, MVP of the Greek Finals league and the Super Cup and all of that. So can you tell me now when you think about Dusan Ivkovic, if you have now 10 minutes to talk with him, what would you say to him?
“Good question. I would ask him what was driving his ideology, what was inspiring his passion. Because for me, and mind you, he’s my coach for one year. I have my understanding of the game. I have my philosophy, I understand my role.
I know the importance of it. And for me, my vision was always focused on my head coach as a player, as a point guard, because I was raised and taught that it was my job to be an extension of my head coach.
So it’s interesting because we’re together a whole year, and if I tell you how many conversations Coach Ivkovic and I had, you would be shocked. We didn’t have a lot of conversations.
We did not have a lot of conversations. Why? I would listen to him. He knew what he wanted. He knew how he wanted it.
And that’s all I needed to know from then. It was me taking what he wanted to do to the players and enforcing that. We did what he wanted to do. I was calling the timeouts. I was the guy saying, no, not good enough.
Let’s go back, we do it again. And he was, for me, he was quiet. I called him, I related him to, like, the Godfather. He was quiet.
He walked around, very low demeanor. He talked to you. He maybe touched you. He touched you gently, but he would move you. He was strong.
And so I studied him and I watched him. I watched how he interacted with players. He wasn’t screaming. Giannis Ioannidis, a great coach. He was my coach before Ivkovic.
Complete and total opposite. He was like Frank Sinatra smoking a cigarette, screaming. I mean, screaming, you know, going at players every single day. And I would watch him. How many conversations did I have with him?
Same with Coach Ivkovic. Not many. Because I knew what he wanted. I knew what he was trying to get the guys to execute. And it all came down to communication.
And that’s what a lot of players and coaches don’t realize today. It’s communication. Every player is different. Every player has a different ego. Every player has different buttons that can be pushed to motivate them to do their job.
And I understood that.”
Yeah, and you can’t have the same approach to every player.
“No, you cannot. No, you cannot.
You need to adapt to talk 100%.
And so I learned this way back in high school. And I applied it. I applied it through Notre Dame. I saw it put on display in the NBA with my coaches. So Ivkovic, I would ask him those two questions because he’s not going to just openly express himself.
You gotta talk with him. You gotta ask him questions. And one thing I’ll say about all the great coaches, the one thing they have in common, no matter where they are in the world, airport, bus, coffee shop, whatever, on the street, if you approach them the right way, every single one of them is going to listen to you. They’re going to give you three minutes, some maybe five, they’re going to listen to you. Why?
Because they’re learning.”
They know how to listen.
“Yeah, they’re learning. And so that’s my vision about Coach Ivkovic. Very quiet, very strong. When you know what you need to do, when you understand the assignment, there’s nothing else to say. And he and I had very little conversations.
We talked. In fact, when we talked, wanna know what we talked about?”
Basketball?
No, no, no. We didn’t talk about basketball. We talked about family.
But that’s also some approach to show you that he cared and he knew that you cared about him.
“Yes.”
A main player of that team. Okay, coach, I will take care of this situation, stuff like that. Do you even imagine that almost, not almost 30 years after, 29 years after, you are still one of the most beloved Americans that played for Olympiacos. You are also MVP in that season. And that’s the first EuroLeague trophy for the Greek teams in EuroLeague.
“Yes.”
And that’s something going under the radar. Okay. Now after that, Zeljko Obradovic, as a coach, leads Panathinaikos to a lot of titles. Olympiacos now, they now took the title. Did you maybe watch the Final Four and—
No, you don’t have time to watch it?
“No, I just, you know, there are certain things that I do in my life now where I’m still connected to the game. I’m still an ambassador of EuroLeague. I do pay attention to what the organization is doing. But as far as watching games, I don’t get to watch games a lot because I spend a lot of time consulting with young players, different teams. I’m not necessarily watching, trying to watch every game.
And I have my corporate business portfolio that I’m trying to grow in the economic turmoil of the world. So I’m very selective. I do look at the highlights in the aftermath, but I have not sat down and watched the full game in a long time.”
Just two more questions about Olympiacos, because I want to hear it from you. It’s really interesting thing in our region, in Balkan, in Serbia, in ex-Yugoslavia. Call it however you want it. Duda Ivkovic told in one interview that that summer of ’97, Dejan Bodiroga wanted to sign with Olympiacos and he at some point regretted that it didn’t happen because he was thinking that you and Dejan Bodiroga would be an amazing duo in the EuroLeague that can make a dynasty. EuroLeague dynasty.
And you played against him, Bodiroga, in the final. And now I want to ask you, did you ever think about that duo with Bodiroga and what happened? I understand if you don’t want to answer that question, but that’s in a lot of information about that summer. What happened during those 24 hours when you left Olympiacos?
“I still don’t have a clear answer today. I did hear about Dejan Bodiroga, the possibility that he would join us, and that would have—at that particular time, we were already able to compete with anybody, with NBA teams. But having him join that group, we would have been able to compete with sustainability against any NBA team. So for me, that was going to be like icing, extra icing and extra cherries on the cake if he would have, you know, came to our team.
But I don’t know why it didn’t happen. I don’t even know what changed when I accepted to sign on for three more years.”
You accepted it?
“Oh, yeah, I was. Yeah, I accepted.”
“I accepted, you know, to sign and stay. And I go to dinner with my family that evening and I get a call, okay, you know, from the manager saying that they’re backing out of the contract. And I’m like, oh, what’s going on? And everybody’s sad and, you know, crying.
We don’t know. They just, you know, told us, they informed us that they were backing out of the contract. I had already, you know, accepted.
I had already accepted. And so when I heard that, I was like, that’s strange. I’m the type of guy, you make a decision, I’m gonna ask you one time and that’s it.”
“That’s it. Because this is basketball. I know no matter where I go, I’m going to win, I’m going to be successful. So, and I just asked the question on that call one time, why, what’s happened?
And nobody could give me an answer. Till this day, I do not have an answer. Some say it was about power. They thought I was becoming overpowered.”
Over the team, right?
“Yeah. Some say, I don’t know. But for me, I was like, okay, I called my agent. Hey, they’re backing out of the deal. Yes, I know.
Okay, where are we going? That’s all I wanted to know. Because wherever that was, nothing in me, I was going to continue to win championships, and that’s what I did.”
When you now think about the past and think about that EuroLeague final and your career, I have one, I think, good question. If you close your eyes and have an opportunity to play one game again, 40 minutes again, which game would it be? Is it that final in Rome, or is it something else?
“No, it’s the last game we lost in my first year at Olympiacos, to get knocked out. I want to go back to the game that I lost. I want to do that over and fix it. Yeah, that’s what I want to do.
I want to go back to that game that I lost. Because when I lose, it stays with me, and it stays with me. It’s the only thing I’m going to think about the whole summer. I’m training, and it’s that loss that kept me away from the championship. That’s just me. You know, people count titles, people count individual accolades.
No, I want to replay that game that I lost.”
I agree with you. Because there are many, many players who don’t have some titles, and how can we say that they are bad players? Like Charles Barkley or Carmelo Anthony, or a lot of NBA superstars that didn’t win the title. And okay, someone else did. But you need to appreciate the presence of those guys on the court.
I think for the real basketball fans, that’s the main point, the key point.
“Yes, no, absolutely. Because the one thing that I was always conscious of as a player, I was conscious of the janitor who opened the gym. I was conscious of the fans. I knew what the fans wanted. I mean, I’m a student of the game.
I’m a student of my environment. I knew what the fans wanted. I knew what the fans experienced and what they didn’t experience. And I wanted to be successful. I wanted to play with an appreciation because I grew up from very humble beginnings.
A lot of us, you know, nine girls, six boys, and my parents worked very hard for their money to support us. So I knew people were paying money to come watch me play, and I didn’t want to disappoint. And that was something I was conscious of every single time I was on the court, practice or game.”
That’s something like Mamba mentality on the court.
“100%. 100%.”
You are a student of the game. But were you prepared enough for the fans in Greece? Do you know that the environment has so much rivalry, something like Lakers versus Boston, but on a bigger level?
“Yeah. People don’t understand that. I tell people about the fans, the fan base for different teams in different countries. At the end of the day, you can describe it, but you really don’t understand it unless you’re in that arena. So the fans. For me, when I came to France, I came to Greece, everybody had a different level of passion, but the passion was real.
With the Greek fans, you see it right away.
Every game is death or nothing or life.
Yeah, yeah. But for me, I acknowledge it. I know it exists. I know their passion is real. That’s all I need to know.
I don’t pay attention to them. I hear them screaming, I feel their passion. But as far as the game goes, I give no attention to it. Once, once that ball is up in…”
Tomorrow you will handle the clinics that will talk about pressure, are you? I think you are. That’s the result.
Showing the guy that used that kind of pressure, fans of everyone, to make it locked in, like at that Final Four. You had 26 and 28 points in two games in the Final Four in Rome, and you were ready to play like a one-man army against everybody at any moment. Is that about the pressure that you’re talking about now and for the clinics, something that you learned as a player in those moments?
“No, it’s different. What my clinic is going to be about is a different type of pressure.
I talk about pressure as in life. Pressure as in life. But I’m using basketball to illustrate it. You’ll hear me. If you stay around me long enough, you’ll hear me use the phrase ‘controlled chaos.’
Controlled chaos has a certain degree of pressure. So, you know, the games, the championships, not in any way, shape, or form did I ever feel pressure. You speak about Partizan. On the way to the Final Four in ’97, Partizan came to Olympiacos and we lost. We lost.
And it was the first game. And so everybody, their heads were down because why? We had to go to Partizan to play them at home. And everybody was like, we’re not going to be able to win there. This is what they were communicating to me with their eyes, with their expressions.
And I said to the journalist, I said, no problem, no worry. We’ll go there and we’re going to win.
We will come back to Piraeus.
Yeah. And I said it like I’m talking to you right now, because I knew. Why did I know? I knew because I had a bad game. And that’s why we lost at home.
And when it came, we woke up that next morning, big interviews, I’m standing in the middle, and I’m saying, listen, we lost because I didn’t play well. Full stop right there. That’s your story. We lost because I did not play well. And so that was, like, news in and of itself.
You know, a player is admitting that the team lost because of him.”
That’s very rare.
“And so they’re looking at each other. What else do we have to write about? We don’t. And so I go to practice the next day, and we have a huddle. We have a huddle, and the coach says, you know, we have to give respect and talk about what real professionalism is.
And I have no idea what everybody’s going to talk about. And they’re talking about my interview.
And I’m like, what’s up? That’s not a big deal for me. You know, if a real player is true to himself, a real player can admit when they didn’t play well, when they were the reason why the game didn’t go the way the team wanted. So, you know, I was doing this in high school. You own up to your mistakes, you play well.
Okay, I will fix it. Yeah.
Yeah, you own up to that. And so when I’m telling the guys in the locker room, hey, don’t worry, we’re gonna win, we’ll go to Partizan and, you know, we’ll win. And that’s what we did. But it was not this big, huge thing because there’s no… And I try to get players to understand this today.
When you put in the time and, you know, you’re putting in the time in the offseason, when you are prepared, there’s no such thing as pressure. I don’t care what it is. Basketball, sports, corporate business, I’m ready when you’re prepared. There’s no such thing as pressure. So, you know, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, there was never any pressure.
I played this game all my life. What? Pressure for what?”
Like my good friend likes to say, the basketball court is the same in every country.
“100%.
And that’s—you touch on another thing, this mentality that a player is supposed to play differently because he’s playing on the road versus playing in his home gym. I don’t understand that. That is so bizarre to me. How can you adopt that mentality?
There’s only a few players that I know who didn’t adopt that mentality. Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson, those guys, Larry Bird, they did not have that mentality. It didn’t matter where they were playing. And so for me, it’s amazing that today that’s lost and players still have that mentality. Oh, we gotta travel and go on the road game.
So what? So what? You still gotta play defense. They gotta play defense. You still gotta pass the ball.
They gotta pass the ball. But I do tell you this. For me, I always prepared to not only control my opponent, but to also control the referees.”
You now remind me of the Kobe story. One Kobe story, you probably know it. He was learning the referees’ book, how they switch, in which places they stayed, when they run, which referee covers which zone, and he found the blind spots. And then, okay, I will hit you, but no one of them will see it.
“Okay? No, I controlled them in a different way. I controlled them in a different way. Because, you know, when they call a foul against your teammate and your teammate is screaming, it wasn’t a foul, it wasn’t this and that, what I would do, I walk up to my teammate: yes, it was a foul.
Stop talking. Let’s get focused and let’s play. And the referee sees that, you’ll gain.
They see that and they know I’m holding everybody accountable. Now, when the ref makes a bad call, I’m gonna step to him. I’m gonna say, hey, look, your angle was wrong. But at the end of the day, that’s a bad call. But when they see me hold my guys accountable, they step back.
They step back, and that’s how I control the referees as well.”
I want to ask you now about your experience in Italy, because you kind of reunited with Dominique Wilkins and Carlton Myers.
Also, Gregor Fučka.
Predrag Danilović, he was with Virtus.
In the same city, but different team. Can you tell me about that experience? Because it’s kind of, how to say, a known environment.
Because you know Dominique Wilkins, and you know Myers, and you are in Europe now four or five years at that moment.
“That’s right.”
How did things change at that moment? And you realized, okay, I will sign in Italy. We have a good team to compete against anyone.
“Well, we… I went to Italy. I went to Italy because we won too many championships too soon in Turkey. That’s why I went to Italy.”
You were in Bursa under Jasmin Repeša, right?
“I signed a contract for four years.”
You won everything in two years.
“Two years, six titles. And the team just decides we can’t be paid.”
Two Triple Crowns.
“We closed. Yes.”
“Yes, yes. Back to back. And so what that meant was, give me a new game. Give me a new game. This is what happened.
They had to pay out a lot of money and they couldn’t. So the way they got past that was shutting down and starting from scratch. And that’s why I went to Fortitudo.”
What’s your experience with coach Repeša? Because he’s from Croatia and a lot of people know him. He’s famous not only for his basketball knowledge, titles, or anything.
He’s also a funny guy. In those timeouts, he always swears in his homeland language. And he was like that in a timeout, talking with the players. And you told me that two years, six titles, it can’t be better than that.
“I loved him because he was true to himself. Granted, he didn’t have a lot to scream about because, again, for me, I knew what he wanted. I understood the scouting report, I knew what we were working on. So for me, it was my responsibility to make sure the players executed. So he would find himself not screaming because I was taking control of practice.
We make mistakes. Let’s go back, do it again. I’m directing this. And he’s walking up and down the sidelines and he’s watching everything. Some guys he would go directly to and talk to, but he didn’t have to, you know, scream a lot.
Yeah, we played well. And he recognized that. But he laid out everything. He was the leader, and we went out and we executed.”
Did you have conversations with him?
“Not a lot.”
Because you are kind of a player who won everything and everywhere. Was a leader, but didn’t talk too much with coaches or anyone.
“No, I was focused on performance. I’m going to go to the source of information, which comes from my leader, which is the head coach. Once I understand what he wants, I don’t need to say anything to him anymore. I’m not going to be a guy that small-talks and socializes. That’s not me.
I want to execute. I want to be focused. I want to make sure my big men are running. I want to make sure my shooters are putting up shots and being prepared to shoot. So that was me.
That was my focus. I wanted to focus on me being prepared to be in the right position to help make everybody better. That was my entire focus everywhere I went. I didn’t have a lot of conversations with my head coaches. Just…
That’s not what I was there for. Now, the players are different. You got to talk with them, you got to get to know them. You got to understand what motivates them, what they like, what they don’t like. Because I got to communicate with them.
So I spend more time talking with my teammates than coaches. That’s just how it all played out.”
I want to ask you something also interesting for the fans in Serbia, because we have guys from ex-Yugoslavia who went to the NBA and they made, how to say, they opened the door for everyone else. I know a lot of players before you came to Europe. Okay, but we are now talking about changing the perspective.
Absolutely. From the American players who came to Europe with you, because you are the guy who came, who showed everybody that quality, that responsibility, that leadership, that performance. Do you think you are the guy that kind of opened that door for other Americans? Because before you, the guys that came to Europe, that was their Plan B. You told me that.
Okay, it’s my destiny, it’s my challenge. I will accept it. I go, okay. They will call me seven, eight times. When I decide it’s time, I will go there.
Do you believe maybe that’s the crucial point for some players that came to Europe and showed everybody their talent, their potential, and that you—you just… At lunch, you used that phrase, the first tier, top tier. Something like Kendrick Nunn two years ago and a lot of players before him.
“Yeah, 100%. They, you know, I’ve heard it said. I’ve heard it said to me. I’ve heard it said about me. At the end of the day, I don’t give it much weight here or there. But at the end of the day, the one thing I always wanted to do, no matter where I go, what country, what city, what environment, I always wanted to leave it better than I found it.
That was it. On the court, off the court, I was conscious of my environment. I knew what I was doing. I knew that others would follow. And I always wanted to leave—I wanted to leave my impression, my imprint, my footprint.
Because people ask the question, you know, why do people still regard you as this or that, you know, the Michael Jordan of Europe, you know, one of the best Americans ever, blah, blah, blah. Why do they still admire you? And I always tell them it’s because of how I made them feel. It’s how you make the people, the public, the community, your competition—how you make them feel.”
You can’t forget it.
“You can’t forget it. Even in loss. How do you make them feel? Your opponent, you just crushed their hearts. How do you make them feel?
You do all these crazy dances and celebrations. No, you pay tribute to the fact that they were there and they were professional. It’s how you make them feel. That’s what causes people to remember.”
Also, I spent here now four days with you, and I’m watching some training sessions. I was listening to what you’re talking about when I’m near, and I can conclude, even after the first day, everything you’re… You are a kind of person that I really like, something like a teacher. Because everything you said in the previous four days, it makes sense. And it’s not about going around, around, around. It’s directly, just like here in this talk.
And in this morning session, you told your players, you want to shoot like Steph Curry, you want to train like Steph Curry, and you stayed with them for the same practice for almost two hours. Do you believe—I know you believe it, I also believe it—but is that a blueprint for everyone?
At any stage, any job, any interest? People think Steph Curry came here and he just hit a three-point shot. They don’t see behind the wall.
And that’s, at some point, at every point, the key moment for everything that we are doing in our lives. And there is one quote, you probably know it. You are the guy not in the presence of other people. You are the guy who shows up behind closed doors when you are alone. So can you tell me about that kind of philosophy and that simple quote: if you want to shoot like Curry, go train like Curry.
And people don’t have any idea how hard that is.
“Right, right. And again, I correlate it to life. Because it is applicable to no matter what it is you’re pursuing. And in my program, we have a slogan.
It’s called ‘Live it.’ And what that means is whatever it is you’re dreaming of becoming, you have to practice living it every single day. I don’t care what it is. President of a corporation. What does it take to become a president of a corporation?
What does it take for someone to start their own business? What does it take to be the fastest runner, the highest jumper, the best shooter, the best passer, the best communicator? You have to live it. And I literally mean live it. Offseason, what am I doing?
I’m spending all my free time on the court. I’m spending all my free time on the court practicing everything that I can practice, being in the weight room, getting my body stronger. Why? I want to be the best. What does it take to be the best? Practice living it.
Every single day. You gotta live it. If you say you want to do this or that, the kids come to me and I say, okay, explain to me, how is this dream manifested every day in your daily life? What are you doing? And then when they can’t tell me, again, it’s a teaching moment.
If you truly say you want this, it’s gotta manifest in your life every day. People around you gotta see it. And when they see it, they say, oh, put him or her over here in this category. Because they’re working on something. You can tell by what they do, what they’re doing.
Are they making their beds in the morning when they get up? Are they doing their own laundry? What are they doing? What are you doing to manifest every day, on a daily basis, what it is you’re trying to become?
Gotta live it. And some people say, well, how do you do that? Well, by doing these little acts of discipline. Taking care of yourself, taking care of your body, not waiting for mom and dad to do your laundry, not waiting for mom and dad to wake you up, not waiting for mom and dad to tell you to clean your room. You’re handling your business.
It’s something so small, but it’s building discipline. It’s building initiative. You’re living it.”
This will be the last one I will quote my colleague. Did you hear for Edin Avdić, sport commentator and journalist from Balkan, from Bosnia?
“I don’t believe I have. It’s possible.”
Who really leave his job. He live it.
And he passed away at 47 just like this.
“Wow. I am sorry to hear it.”
And he really, he really left the amazing legacy like a sport commentator. Because on that funeral there was Dejan Bodiroga, there was Zeljko Obradovic, a lot of basketball players, Mirza Teletović who played in Brooklyn Nets, in Milwaukee, from Bosnia. A lot of basketball guys were at that funeral. And he wasn’t the athlete, he wasn’t the president and nothing like that. And I really remember one quote from him that’s about that story.
Leave it. Or how to say a lot of basketball players, professional athletes, I’m talking now about professional athletes. They really don’t like the basketball. They like the lifestyle that they get from basketball. They like extra supercars, expensive, they like trips, they like supermodels around them.
They like how to say VIP places.
“The superficial things.”
Yeah, yeah. And that is quote that really hitting hard. Because when you think about it, when you watch the NBA like the best basketball league ever, best organized and everything, you need to find a role model who isn’t like that.
“Yep, that’s right.”
And I want your comment on that quote and that stuff. Something like a message for young fans, for young players to find a real role model. Okay. I understand that you have your role models in your parents. I also watched always my father and how he’s doing, how he’s fight with some harder things and how to calculate is this will be enough for the bills, for this, for this and stuff like that.
And in one moment you are thinking about the athletes that have 20 years, that they have signed a lot of dollars contract and how to handle all of it in those moments. It’s hard question, I know. Well, I want to hear your opinion.
“At the end of the day, I was always raised and taught to be extremely humble no matter what, whether I had success or failure. You always have to be humble. You know, if you’re in it to chase the superficial material things, the lifestyle, the relationships, the friendships, then you have to understand that you’re going to have a very, very short life.
You’re going to have a very, very short existence in this world that you’re pursuing because you’re concentrated on superficial things. When you take an approach where you want to be a helper of people, you want to leave an impression and make communities better, that’s where you’re getting into the mindset of true glory.
When you find yourself and use your platform to be a helper of a multitude of people, no matter what culture, no matter what race, no matter what country, that that’s achievement. All those superstars showed up for the journalist. Why? That’s a statement in and of itself. It was indicative of the value of what he represented and how he conducted his life in doing his job.
When your time is up and you’re finished, who shows up is a statement in and of itself. So I don’t know the journalist personally, but I know the names that you just rattled off that showed up at his service and that tells me who he was and what he was. Pursue the right things for the right reasons. If you’re in it for the money, yeah, I was in it for the money. My parents were poor, nine girls, six boys.
We were poor. I was in it for the money, but I had morals, I had a foundation. I understood where real value was versus what superficial value was. And I understood which one had real power. So that’s something I talk to kids about.
Because you need to understand why are you doing what you’re doing? Why are you pursuing what you’re pursuing? What’s the motivation? What’s behind it? If you can understand that, then you got all the fuel you need to plow through that wall.
That’s it.”
Simple as that.
“Simple as that. And you gotta live it.” – David Rivers concluded to Basketball Sphere.
